Električna vozila

[dmeter]

[max]

Onaj tko ti projektira staklenik, plastenik biti će i odgovoran za izračunate relevantne podatke. A onda na temelju istih možeš birat što ćeš (za grijanje, hlađenje, ventilaciju...) koristiti (TP, PV, solar, VE, ...).

[Brada]

Ovo izgleda dosta zanimljivo.

Pometali su vrhunski materijal unutra: Daikin kompresor, Wilo pumpe, Danfoss ventile, Emerson ekspanzioni ventil, SWEP izmjenjivač topline itd.

Jedna makina za toplu vodu, grijanje i vezu sa solarom na krovu. Dodatni spremnik vode nije potreban. Stvar je navodno zaštićena od smrzavanja do -30oC Razvoj su radili Španjolci, a spominje se kao ciljano tržište i sjever Europe.

Više ovdje -> http://www.china-heatpump.com/heatpump/English/En_ProductShow.asp?ArticleID=149

[Brada]

Zaintrigirale su me specifikacije ovog zrak/zrak kanalnog TP sistema -> http://www.gotohallowell.com/documents/Acadia_System_Specification_Sheets.pdf

Obzirom da navode stvarno visoki COP na temperaturama do -30oC prošvrljao sam po netu i evo rezultata.

Ovo nisu napisi sa proizvođačevog sajta već su mišljenja pokupljena sa raznih foruma. Amerikanci su poznati kao vrlo kritični kupci/korisnici. Nailazim gotovo uvijek samo na zadovoljstvo. Mjerenja su najegzaktnija moguća – mjerni instrument je novčanik. Kao što se vidi galon ložione je tamo 3,5-4 dolara.

I jedno pojašnjenje: Često se spominju stupnjevi rada. Zapravo se radi o opisu rada signalnih lampica na upravljačkoj jedinici:

Stage 1 – samo glavni kompresor

Stage 1 + 2 – booster kompresor + glavni kompresor

Stage 1 +2 blinking – booster kompresor + glavni kompresor + elektro grijač ( standardno cca 5 kW za 3 ton jedinicu )

Summa summarum grijač se najčešće ne uključuje ni kod minus 17oC (0F) u dobro projektiranom sustavu. Problema imaju samo oni koji poddimenzioniraju sustav ili imaju velike gubitke na razvodu zraka.

My home has only 1,549 sq. ft. of living space and the Acadia that I purchased was a 3-ton unit. If your home is large you may need a 4-ton unit. Contact Hallowell for that.
Cost of equipment for the 3-ton Acadia and York air handler w/tax and shipping was $7,535.16. The price had no mark-up on the equipment and was nice to hear for me.

Proposed cost was $10,710 which included all labor for my old oil system & tank removal and all duct work hook up to the York air handler as well as the materials charges and a 5” air filter. My heating contractor installed the Acadia and York unit in eight hours with two men working.
Electrical charges for me were $1,900 for a new 200-amp service with a 30-panel box and $1,000 for the electrical hook up for the Acadia and York unit plus the eight-wire thermostat. The electrical work took two full days with two men working 16 hours each.
The 3-ton Acadia uses 40 amps and the York needs 60 amps for pure electric emergency heating if the Acadia does not work for some reason. So, if you have only a 100 amp service, you will need a new 200 amp service. Not sure what the 4-ton Acadia will need for amperage.

After installation and initial running, you will need a further charge to the second compressor (cost built in to the original quote.)
Most times you will notice the air handler blowing almost luke-warm. The air handler does not blow really hot air since it blows air mixed with your cold air returns and the warm air from the York unit.
Above all, hire a heating contractor that is experienced with the Acadia and the know-how to wire it.
Hallowell has a help line from their engineers to customers and heating contractors that is awesome! Great company.
The A/C during the hot summer months is fabulous. Can get really icy cold as you want.
I keep the A/C at a moderate 70 degrees.

Cost of heating from this October to mid-December was $300 in electrical charges compared to oil charge from last year at slightly over $1,000.

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Nick, the lowest outdoor temp for me was at 4 degrees F. so far in Abington, MA, and the Acadia was running at Stage 1+2 (not calling for electric heat and not blinking on stage 2.)
I had the Hallowell thermostat set at 66 degrees F.
Most days the Acadia operates on Stage 1 and set at 66F.
We are not that far from each other here in MA. The temperatures have been really low for both of us these past two months.

I am still learning on how to run the Acadia at the most affiant temperature cycle here in the South Shore area of MA.
I have the Hallowell thermostat set at 66 degrees F during the day and at night time 68F degrees, 66-68 degrees temp is comfortable temp for me and for my wife as well.
I turn the thermostat down to 66 degrees when we are sleeping.

I think Rick likes 68 degrees F, at his home during the winter months as well.
I am way ahead with cost savings on the Acadia compared to fuel oil heating charges last year for Oct., Nov., & Dec. at $1,007. About 33-40 percent savings for Oct. 15 to Dec. 15.
My electrical cost was $300. Fantastic!!

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Last year between Dec. 15 and Jan. 15 I had a home heating oil delivery charge of $1,149. My electric bill this year for the same period was $400 for heating my home with the Acadia.
A savings of $749 compared to last year.
Am I happy with it now? Yes.
Presently at 1:30am, my exterior temp is 18 degrees F. and I have my Hallowell indoor thermostat set at 67 degrees and is at stage 1+2 (not blinking to call for a booster electric heat.)
Always try to increase the Hallowell thermostat no higher than two degrees at any setting referred by Chip Lucas. The most affient is to leave the Acadia/Hallowell running at a constant temp.
My norm is set at 66 degrees

As far as the noise level goes. I have my 3-ton exterior Acadia next to my computer room on the first floor of my 1,549 sq. ft. home. Next to that is a bathroom between my kitchen. I have to go to this bathroom and listen to check out and hear weather the Acadia is running or not.
In my dining room and living room across from the Acadia, you would not even hear it and the York air handler as well. You can never hear the York air handler in my home unless you stood next to it in my cellar basement. It is that quiet.
My cellar is not finished for a Den or such.
I store wine in my cellar at 60 degrees.

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I live on the South Shore of MA. I used a heating contractor named Alvin Hollis based in Weymouth, MA. I also had a service contract with them last year that cost $125 for the year and an extra Tank-Guard fee of $25.
Alvin Hollis charges the highest on the total South Shore for home oil heating delivery.
Here is an actual cost from Alvin Hollis to me.
4/8/08…165.7 Gal. @ $656.01 ($3.959 per gallon)
2/27/08…159.3 Gal. @ $563.76
1/24/08… 205.8 Gal, @$668.64
12/19/07…140.9 Gal. @ $470.47
11/13/07…124.3 Gal. @ $406.34
Total 796.0 Gal and the cost for that period was $2,765.72. NOT for a FULL heating season.
On June 1st of 2008 I received a quote of $4.799 per gallon from Alvin Hollis for the current oil delivery price.
That is when I finally had it and decided to go with the Acadia.

The best thing I ever did.
In actual costs from last Dec. 19/07 to Jan. 24/08 the cost for home heating oil was $1,139.21. Add it up.
My current electric bill (12/10/08 to 1/12/09) for the Acadia is $400. A significant savings for me this year and the temperatures are much colder this year. Figure it out. $739 in savings.

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I had oil baseboard and added Acadia and ducts - same size house as you. This gave me central air as well. I looked at Geothermal and it would have cost double or more. Also, beware of geothermal efficiency numbers because they are often quoted just for the heating system but ignore the costs associated with pumping the water/antifreeze through the pipes outside the house. This is substantial.

You can estimate your savings by looking at the COP figures provided by Hallowell. If you are running electric heat your COP is 1 less any losses in ductwork (don't know if you are baseboard or air). If you are baseboard, to figure out your cost savings, simply divide your electric heat bill by the projected COP and the result will be your estimated new bill.

With Hallowell at 100% effiency and an average winter here, you would average over 3 COP. Remember that their COP numbers are ideal and yours will be lower due to the following:
- Deicing cycles which are more frequent during higher humidity
- Heat loss in ducts (length and insulation are factors)
- Compression buildup with each heating call (the refrigerant requires some time to fully compress and achieve optimal heating ability with each startup)
- Longer or less insulation of refrigerant lines

The last three of these ineffiencies can be minimalized during installation and by how you run your system.

I am guessing that, once done with all my insulation work, I will be able to heat for under $1,500/year. Using some calcs from my oil usage history, $1,500/yr would be a COP somewhere between 2.6 and 2.9. Dividing your electric heat bill by anything like this would be substantial savings. If you do not have central air right now, this makes it even more compelling.

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I think you know more on how to run the Acadia than I do presently.
I have not disabled the electric strips at all.
Right now the outside temp is 14F, the Acadia thermostat is set at 66F and the thermostat is reading 65F and running only on stage 1.
(Fifteen minutes later the Acadia is running at Stage 1+2 steady.)
I think that is really neat and saving me heating costs.

Earlier in the morning today, the outside temp was 0F and the Acadia was running at stage 1+2 steady and the interior temp was maintaining a 66 degree temp.
I really do not know how the defrost cycle works and when it is on.
I should read the manual and learn Greek!!)

Glad to hear that you like the Acadia also. It is impressive and the savings are real. So far this heating season, my electric bills have been $100 for Oct.-Nov. 15, $300 for Nov.-Dec. 15 and $400 for Dec. -Jan. 15. It has been a very cold winter so far.
I only run my heat between 66 & 68F because I do not have toddlers running around our home any more.

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I have 2 three ton Acadia units in my 2,400 sf house and am a long-term experiment of your test. I have permanently disabled my strip heat and have taken lots of measurements at the return and various registers. Here are some samples of temperature differentials I have measured once the units are fully warmed up:

45F ODT, return @71F, register average 91F @~800 CFM (ODT = vanjska temp.)
25F ODT, return @71F, register average 89F @~1,000 CFM
10F ODT, return @70F, register average 102F @~1,000 CFM

These numbers vary a bit with where the units are in the deicing cycle (recently deiced or just about to deice). I seem to hit my balance point at 0F to -5F with the thermostat set at 69F. Wind and humidity are big factors for balance point since the former increases BTU losses and the latter increases deicing frequency.

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4. Nick, I have some homework for you to check. Last night I made measurements to test the efficiency of the system. Here are the data:

outdoor temp: 21 F (-5oC)
Thermostat set at: 65 F
System running steadily on Stage 1 (should be M2 at 21 F) – na minus pet mu radi samo glavni kompresor i pri tome ima COP KOMPLETNOG SUSTAVA 2.07! (mjereno na watt metru koji je dio el brojila vidi dolje)


Duct Air: 90.7 F
Return Air: 63 F (measured through a small hole in the duct located about 3 feet from the air handler)
air flow: 800 cfm (recorded from blinking LED on air handler board, which matched the setting on the board)
Whole-house power: 3.7 kW, with probably about 0.3 kW background

BTUHs = 1.08 x CFM x Tout-Treturn
= 1.08 x 800 x (90.7-63)
= 23,933 BTUHs

I have a 48D airhandler, and my value is in the ballpark of the value that Acadia gives for that model on Stage 1: 24,480 BTUHs at 17 F.
So, it seems that my output is okay. But, I am estimating from my whole-house power meter that I am using about 3.4 kW power for the HVAC alone, when it is running on Stage 1. That means that my COP is:


COP = 23,993/(3400 x 3.412) = 2.07

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I have a Acadia 3 ton unit in my 1500SF home near Ottawa, Ontario. I am pleased with it so far and share similar experiences with the unit as most of the other posters here. I have the same issues with the unit blowing cold air during defrost but have learned to live with it. I leave my thermostat set at 22C/72F all the time as I find this works best.

We are new to Ottawa and I can tell you that this is a cold place in winter. I was amazed one morning to find the OAT was -34C/-29.2F. I never thought it would get that cold here. I am happy to report that it was still a comfortable 22C in the house and the unit was working in stage 1&2 but not blinking!! Usually it only says stage 1 down to -20C.

One issue that I am having is that the installer attached the outdoor unit to the outside of the house using standard L brackets and as a result I get vibrations from the compressors throughout the house. So if you are having one installed make sure you have it put on a stand and not attached to the house. I will be building a wood stand for mine as soon as the snow it gone.

Over all I am very pleased, just a little anoyed by the noise and vibration but thats it and I would highly recommend it.

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I suggest just asking a question. I will be honest with you concerning the Acadia. I did have a problem with the strip heat turning on during the last two weeks of Jan. and the first two weeks of Feb.
It cost me $200 extra in electrical charges for that period.

I had my HAVAC contractor fix the problem while talking to two engineers from Hallowell.
Now everything is working on stage 1 & stage 2 without any strip heat that is actually stage 3.
According to my heating contractor, stage 3 should never happen for me ever: (Stage 1+2 and blinking).
Since my contractor has fixed the problem, my Acadia mostly runs on stage 1. Occasionally, when the outside temp is below freezing, the system will be on stage 1+2. (Which is good by the way and why the Acadia was designed for in the first place with the booster compressor (stage 2) activated.
Jeese, I actually sound like I know all about the Acadia!!
NOT! In a longshot! I am still learning about it also.

My best advice is to have a qualified contractor install it that totally knows the system in order to avoid the problems that I went through since installation last Aug.

You also should insulate all warm ducts and cold air returns. That is the major problem according to the Hallowell engineers for energy loss with the Acadia.

My recent National Grid Electrical bill for half of Feb, & March was
$300 for heating with the Acadia compared to $600 for oil heating last year. Nice heating savings. If I had all the air ducts insulated presently, my savings would be even more.
I have my contractor estimating insulation now. Wish I did it with the initial installation. Live and learn.

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I did look at Geothermal right up front with a rehab energy install. The cost was over $44K without drilling a second artesian well or for any duct work. The total cost would be over $50K and the engineer never followed up with a final cost.
You can guess what I told that engineer from the South Shore of MA.

Geothermal is wonderful with new construction. Rehab is very expensive to deal with. That is why I went with the Acadia installation.
My total charges for the unit, installation charges and upgrade to 200 amp electrical was about $14K.
I had a heating bill of $2765.22 for the 2007-2008 heating season from Oct. to April.
With the Acadia I had a heating bill of $1587 from Oct. to March 15, 2009 heating season. Quite a savings.

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Wholesale price for the 3-ton unit is $6,800+ with a York Air Handler plus shipping and taxes will be additional. Most 3-ton installs will cost about $14K+. You will need a 200 amp service in order to run this unit (Figure about $2K). Typical electrical install and the Hallowell thermostat will be $1K.

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Here are my links to all work done at my home last Aug. 2008.

Lannan Mechanical Installation of the ARCAIDA Heat Pump from Hallowell International.

• Demolition and removal of the Oil Burner and Oil Tank:
http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trycarryingeverythingdous8.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lannonstartofdemolitionid7.jpg


My cellar looks barren. Too late now to turn back now! With my oil dealer charging $4.799 per gallon in September, I wonder what the price of home heating oil will be this coming heating season and in 2009!?? At $5.00 per gallon, the 275-gallon oil tank will cost $1,375 per fill-up. WOW!

• Start of the installation:
http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=demolitionaug20080856gy8.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=demolitionaug20080857va0.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=acadiabeinginstalled086qc3.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=acadiapipinginstall0873uz4.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=acadiapipinginsulation0hg7.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=acadiasnowsupport0871hv0.jpg
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capforoldduct0876cl7.jpg
http://img393.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cellarstairsbulkhead085fn8.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorkbeinginstalled0875lx9.jpg

• Outside, the ARCADIA unit and the installer Greg:
http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gregandtheacadia0868ow7.jpg


• Interior basement and the York unit and sheet metal work:
http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gregandtheacadia0868ow7.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gregandtheacadia0868ow7.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lannaninstallationtubinox6.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lannannewductworkinmiddwc0.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lannannewductcoldairretpz7.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lannoninstallfix0887mm8.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trion5mediaaircleaner08sw2.jpg

• Final shots of the York hook up and sheet metal details:
http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorkdetail0882sn3.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorkfinishedinstall0886rv7.jpg
http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorkpowerswitch0878to3.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9048/yorkpowerswitch0878cf2.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorksoftpowerswitchcoveiv9.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorkunitairfilterbeforefc9.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorkunitbeinginstalled0jy2.jpg

• A/C interior condenser water discharge not yet hooked up:
http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorkacwaterpump0879za5.jpg

• 5 inch TRINITRON air filter
http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorktrion5airfilter0880kd7.jpg

• The Programmed Thermostat, state of the art, not yet installed. Just to show the packaging”
http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yorkthermostatpackage08sf5.jpg

[zega]

Brada, tu svaka supa ima nekaj slicno, ok vanjski izmjenjivaci su vema slicni a u kuci naravno ne znam kaj imaju...
Ali su im kuce zato suplje i propuhaste, vidjet cemo kak bu to funcioniralo zimi, zasada su mi iskustva odlicna sa mikro lamel radijatorima uz pod (visina 25cm debljina 5cm...) ujutro zagrije kucu za 10 min...
Ovo je drugacije, air ducts hladjenje...
E da diesel je tu 2,8$ u Idahou 6milja odavde a u WA je 2,9$ galon...

[viz]

[viz]

[viz]

[peco]

Jel prodaje netko u Hrvatskoj te klime?

[dejok]

Mnogo sam čitao o CO2 sustavima koji za sada mnogo obećavaju,ali se još nisam susretao sa njima da bih mogao prokomentirati njihovu pouzdanost i kvalitetu. Znam da je tlak puno veći nego kod dosadašnjih sustava, što zahtjeva malo drugačiji pristup i korištenje drugih ili ojačanih materijala prilikom montaže i izrade.
Prednost će im svakako biti očuvanje okoliša i jeftini radni medij.

[Brada]

@peco: Probaj pitat tu -> http://www.spectra-media.hr/

... ali svakako si pripremi stolicu prije nego što ti saopće cijenu (ako to uopće imaju u ponudi)

[peco]

Izgleda da ovi nemaju.Znam da su jako skupe.Malo sam guglo i vidim da su vani ove manje od 4,5 kW oko 45000 kn, al ne nadjem ih kod nas

[Brada]

@peco: Site im je samo informativan. Spectra-Media je već pokoje desetljeće oficijelni zastupnik za neke dijelove Sanyo koncerna. Vrlo je izvjesno da može u razumnom roku nabaviti uređaj po nekim standardnim uvjetima... ako to žele naravno.

Probaj razgovarati sa glavom firme - Kerim Mujkić. Čisto sumnjam da mu nije u interesu jednokratni posao težak nekoliko desetina tisuća kuna, a i sam interes za taj proizvod bi mu trebao biti znakovit.

[dmeter]

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453057622
Toplotna pumpa 17 kw grijanja i hlađenja u Usa od 7500 do 15000 kn
Stvarno treba naše prodavaće kad kažu cijenu pjunit u lice,to nisu ljudi nego stoka
Isplati se ko radi kuću sjest u avion i pravac USA i kupit sve potrebno ukrcat u kontejner

[bezkomentara]

Još jedan mali teoretski prilog o toplinskim pumpama i načelima njihova rada. U zadnjih par dana bacili smo se u teoretske vode...

http://www.zelenaenergija.org/kako-funkcioniraju-i-od-cega-se-sastoje-toplinske-pumpe/